María Fernanda Espinosa, UN secretary general candidate: The UN risks becoming irrelevant

“Sometimes we confuse activity with impact. And here I think the way we measure results should be different. How many lives has the UN saved? How many people has the UN helped to live out of poverty? How many people have we prevented from conflict? How many people were we able to support?”

The BBC’s Anne Soy speaks to María Fernanda Espinosa, Ecuador’s former foreign minister and a candidate to become the first woman secretary general of the United Nations.

She is seeking the role at a time when the UN faces severe financial pressure, falling international aid budgets and questions about its influence over major conflicts.

Espinosa believes the organisation remains essential, but warns that it could become irrelevant unless it changes how it works. She describes the choice facing the UN as “reform, transform or die”.

The Interview brings you conversations with people shaping our world, from all over the world. The best interviews from the BBC, including episodes with Russia’s nuclear envoy Mikhail Ulyanov and UNICEF chief Catherine Russell.

You can listen on the BBC World Service on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays at 0800 GMT. Or you can listen to The Interview as a podcast, out three times a week on BBC Sounds or wherever you get your podcasts.

Presenter: Anne Soy

Producer: Osman Iqbal, Sharon Hemands and Farhana Haider

Editor: Damon Rose

(Image: María Fernanda Espinosa. Credit: Getty)