................................................................................ ON THE RECORD NIELS HELVEG PETERSEN INTERVIEW RECORDED FROM TRANSMISSION BBC-1 DATE: 20.3.94 ................................................................................ JOHN HUMPHRYS: Well on Tuesday Mr. Hurd goes to Brussels to try to settle his differences with the Council of Ministers. At the moment, he doesn't have a single supporter for the option he prefers -leaving the voting system as it is. But is there room for compromise? Well, the Foreign Minister of Denmark, Niels Helveg Petersen, will be at that negotiating table. He joins me now from Copenhagen. Mr. Helveg Petersen, Denmark took a fairly sceptical view over Maastricht in order to protect its own sovereignty. Don't you, therefore, have some sympathy for the British view? NIELS HELVEG PETERSEN: Well, I have a lot of sympathy for the United Kingdom, for Great Britain. We have in many issues been in agreement, but on this issue I think there are very solid reasons why the predominant view inside the European Union - that is the view of ten out of twelve countries - is the correct one. And I would mention at least three major reasons why it is so. First of all, it is the historical precedent. When Denmark, the United Kingdom and Ireland joined we readjusted the level for qualified majority accordingly. That was done at the timeof our entry. It was done again with the entry of Greece, again with the entry of Spain and Portugal - all the time it's been the community rule that round seventy per cent of the vote constituted a qualified majority - that is, thirty per cent would be a block... and the minority. HUMPHRYS: And the other two reasons: HELVEG PETERSEN: That is the over-riding interest of my country and I think indeed also of United Kingdom. That is, that the Nordic countries and Austria now could become members. We should not delay that and it will be delayed if we do not agree on another figure than twenty-three. And thirdly, what is really at stake here also for the United Kingdom, for Denmark, for others, is that the Government conference in '96 which is going to set the rules for the Community of the future. That is an enlarged Community taking these decision, including the Scandinavian countries and Austria. I think that is deeply also in the interests of Britain. HUMPHRYS: Isn't the reality though that when you sit at that table in Brussels on Tuesday with Douglas Hurd and all the rest of you, you're going to have a lot of talking, a lot of negotiating, and you're going to emerge - perhaps a little bit bleary-eyed - on Wednesday morning, the early hours of Wednesday morning with a compromise, with a fudge. Isn't that the reality? HELVEG PETERSEN: Oh, I hope so. I certainly hope so.I think all parties to the debate now have made their points. I've certainly made mine, others have done so as well, and now is the time to find solutions and we should do that on Tuesday. HUMPHRYS: I was going to say - you say "find solutions". Do you mean by that find a compromise? Are you in the first place prepared to shift on the matter of twenty-three and twenty-seven? HELVEG PETERSEN: I think it will.. it's.. only realistic view is to say twenty-three, that can never become an agreed position in the Council. HUMPHRYS: Never under any circumstances? HELVEG PETERSEN: This is out. Finally. HUMPHRYS: Completely out. Never under any circumstances. HELVEG PETERSEN: Oh no, I don't think so. That will never be a position that could create a common position. Therefore, we'll have to be looking for something else. I think Britain should be very clear on this - there will never be agreement on twenty-three. We'll have to look for something else. I think there's a lot of good sense in the proposition that has been put forward saying it's twenty-seven, Yes. But if a majority of twenty-three or more are opposed, we take a period of re-thinking in good faith, trying then to establish a formula that could be a consent of formal..... HUMPHRYS: So that are you saying here? I'm not quite sure about what you're saying - whether you're saying we can put off the decision, the entire decision, or whether... HELVEG PETERSEN: No, no. I was talking about a compromise, saying well it's twenty-seven, that's a blocking minority, but if there is in any voting in Council twenty-three or more, but not twenty-seven, that would create a special situation up to the moment when we have the government Conference in '96. HUMPHRYS: Right. So you're talking about some sort of cooling-off period? HELVEG PETERSEN: Yes. HUMPHRYS: For how long? HELVEG PETERSEN: Of re-thinking? One month, it could be twice one month, that's not so important. One could look for solutions along these lines and I think that should be acceptable to everyone, and such a cooling-off period, or think again period I would prefer to call it, is absolutely very valuable. It is true, that gives a chance for the national Parliaments and national public opinion to make itself felt in the debate. HUMPHRYS: There's no way, is there, in which you can separate, de-couple, these two issues - that's to say the acceptance of the four new members and the question of qualified majority voting. That's... so you say Ok, we'll have the four in and then we'll decide. We'll sort it out after that? HELVEG PETERSEN: No, no. That's not possible for very good legal reasons. After all what we have to sign with the four applicant countries is a new Treaty and the Treaty, or an adoption of the Treaty, so there will have to be a text in the agreement also covering this problem. HUMPHRYS: Let me remind you of what you did I think say earlier this week. "The British position," I quote, "is absolutely untenable. This cannot be solved by another meeting. The Brits should call us when they have reconsidered." Is that still your position? HELVEG PETERSEN: It is my position, as I said just a moment ago, everybody, including myself, we have made our positions clear. We shall now seek solutions to it on Tuesday and come up with the result. HUMPHRYS: Right. And so if Mr. Hurd is not prepared to accept the compromise that you seem now to be suggesting - no deal. HELVEG PETERSEN: Well, in that case, there's no enlargement and that is I think deeply regrettable. It is not possible to have twenty-three and enlargement. That is very clear now. HUMPHRYS: Mr. Helveg Petersen, thank you very much indeed. ...oooOooo...