............................................................................... ON THE RECORD INTERVIEW WITH PADRAIG FLYNN RECORDED FROM TRANSMISSION: BBC-1 DATE: 12.12.93 ............................................................................... JOHN HUMPHRYS: Last week we had another of those Euro-rows. Jacques Delors wanted to do something rather grand and the British amongst others, said "not on your life". The Employment Secretary David Hunt joined in the general disapproval. What was at stake was the White Paper on Employment. When it finally came before the heads of government yesterday it was, according to Kenneth Clarke "filleted", so did Mr Delors lose his battle and his policy lose its backbone? The man in charge of this particular bit of Euro-business is Commissioner Padraig Flynn. He's in Brussels. Good morning to you? PADRAIG FLYNN: Good morning to you. HUMPHRYS: So has it been filleted, your White Paper. FLYNN: Well I don't think we should use that kind of language. This was a good summit and it took decisions and we now have a clear agenda and a time-table, and that must be very encouraging for all of the unemployed, the seventeen million unemployed and the fifty million who are living in or below the poverty line, so this was a good summit and we now have an action programme and I think you're going to see a lot of good things come from this. HUMPHRYS: Alright, well let's not use the word filleted, if you don't like the word, though it was the Chancellor's word. What word would you like to use? FLYNN: I'd like to say that this was a good working summit. It took decisions, we're going to have specific action and we're going to have a review of that action every single year by the heads of government to see that the job is done, that's really what the summit was about, creating the right atmosphere for confidence, for growth and for a return to the stability that we know will create jobs. HUMPHRYS: But wasn't the reality that your White Paper was, and I'll use the word if you don't want to use it, Kenneth Clarke's word filleted, and was sent off into some kind of black hole from which it may never emerge. I mean you say it was a good summit but the effect was pretty disastrous for the White Paper wasn't it? FLYNN: No, on the contrary, there are specifics insofar as this action programme is concerned. Now let's take two of them. We're talking about the young unemployed, the five million young people under twenty years of age who have little or no qualifications. We're going to have a new job start, a new way of giving these people an opportunity to get a start in life, so that if you're under twenty you'll either be in education, you'll be in training or you'll be in an apprenticeship or you'll be in some way linked with the labour market. Now that gives an opportunity for young people to look forward to hope and to a future, the long term unemployed. Most of the unemployed are long term, more than half of them, and a lot of them are unskilled, and it has been very difficult for employers to hire them because of the costs attached to labour. Now the recommendation and the agreement is from the summit, that these costs must be reduced to get the long term unemployed back into the labour market. Now that's a matter of hope for an awful lot of people. HUMPHRYS: But did the summit give you the power, the ability to do what you wanted to do, which was to be able to raise a certain amount of money in a certain way with Euro-Bonds for instance? FLYNN: Oh, well, let's take that issue now. The summit agreed that these trans-European networks were absolutely essential so that Europe can compete into the twenty-first century. The links are needed to open up central and eastern Europe and the world. That's vital. HUMPHRYS: Right. (both speaking at once.)..the wherewithal to produce those trans-European networks? FLYNN: Yes, the summit said they wanted them number one, and they also said that the money had to be found to build them. HUMPHRYS: Through Euro-Bonds if necessry? FLYNN: They have agreed all of the money that was listed in the White Paper, that special eight billion that you're talking about every year, so the difference of opinion was, whether it would be by Union Bonds or whether the European Investment Bank would be used to make the loans available, but one way or the other the money is going to be provided and that has been agreed by all of the twelve prime ministers and heads of government. HUMPHRYS: So Kenneth Clarke was clearly wrong then? FLYNN: Well, Kenneth Clarke said that he would prefer if a different instrument was found. Now it may very well be that the European Investment Bank will be the vehicle used, but he and his Prime Minister have agreed that they're essential number one the networks, and that they must be paid for and that all of the money indicated in the White Paper will be spent on these networkds. HUMPHRYS: But he is clearly of the opinion that he did not agree to Euro-Bonds, that was filleted out. FLYNN: Well, that word is certainly not in the text, but the important thing is that the instrument will be found by the Ministers for finance to provide the money from wherever. HUMPHRYS: Maybe through Euro-bonds, or what... FLYNN: Maybe through Euro-Bonds or maybe through other loan facilities that already exist and have been used many times in the past, going back to the late seventies. HUMPHRYS: So you've got the agreement of the British government, the German government, of other governments, to borrow the money that you the Commission think is going to be needed? FLYNN: We have the agreement of all of the prime ministers and heads of government to use the money that has been indicated in the White Paper to build these trans-European networks.. HUMPHRYS: Right, so the white Paper that you've now got that you've taken away - the agreement that you've taken away from this summit is basically the White Paper that you took to the summit. FLYNN: Yes indeed, by and large it is what we wanted, we have the agreement for an action, we have an agreement to provide the necessary instrument to make it all possible. That's the kind of specifics we're talking about and in a way we all have to welcome this White Paper. It's a sign of hope and really it's a force for good insofar as this community is concerned. HUMPHRYS: So it's lost nothing of what you would consider to be important? FLYNN: It has lost nothing that is essential to bring some hope and comfort to the long suffering numbers of unemployed in the union. HUMPHRYS: Padraig Flynn, thank you very much indeed. ...oooOooo...