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Guns: 'A way of life'

A Wythenshawe hoodie pointing a ‘gun finger’ at David Cameron is front page news. Now, gang members on the estate are seen showing off their weapons on TV. What do these images say about our young people? And what can be done about it?

Florence points 'gun finger' at Cameron [pic: PA]
Cameron gets the 'gun finger' [pic: PA]

17-year-old Ryan Florence was snapped making a shooting gesture behind Cameron's back during the Tory leader's tour of the Wythenshawe estate to discuss gun crime.

The photograph, splashed on the front page of The Sun, is being held up as a symbol of the lawlessness of young criminals in Manchester and their association with guns.

Meanwhile, other gang members on the estate were pictured on BBC television (Friday 23 Feb 2007) showing off knives and meat cleavers. (NB No warning was given that the BBC would be filming when the weapons were produced.)

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'A way of life'

We tracked down Ryan, who claims to be a member of a gang called the Benchill Mad Dogs with a record for burglary, street robbery and stealing cars. He told us that guns were a ‘way of life’ in Wythenshawe and could be bought for as little as £30.

Youth shows off weapon
Knives: gang members show off weapons

Although the ‘gun finger’ sign was a signal to rival gangs which meant ‘don’t mess,’ Ryan said he’d made the gesture at Cameron because he was angry at politicians for failing young people like him. He also criticised Cameron for not listening to young people during his visit.

“There’s nothing to do round here,” he said. “We’ve all got our criminal records and there’s nothing to do, innit?” Adding: “What’s he doing? He says he coming round to stop the crime and that. What’s he doing? He’s not stopping us is he?”

Your comments

Is Ryan right? What’s there to do for young people in Wythenshawe? And who’s to blame for the lawlessness and gun crime on our estates?

last updated: 26/02/07
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ben richards
i have been a resident of wythenshawe for over 20 years - my wife and i have brought up 2 sons and guess what ? neither of them have turned to crime or joined gangs because they have been actually brought up to think for themselves and not ponce a living off the state for the rest of their lives as seems to the norm for a great percentage of wythenshawe residents these days , i am sick to death of paying taxes whilst pond life like this in benchill just laugh at hard working people like myself - unfortunately the recent media publicity has just fed the frenzy that these idiots thrive on , the first politician to have the guts to stand up and say they will make it compulsory for anyone who "signs on" for more than 3 months to do work in the community to earn their dole will get my vote - but i will not hold my breath whilst waiting !

adam, florida
years of inadequate government and a total lack of awareness and/or care as to what goes on in inner-city, urban u.k

John
I grew up in Urmston and there wasn't much for us to do but we found things like playing football and going to the park. We found things to do that didn't involve crime. They all want a good hiding in my eyes, they are all giving Manchester a bad name

Sixth
Our laws are unjustified, if these kids are allowed to carry such weapons, the general public should be allowed to carry such means to protect themselves i.e. stun guns etc. As human beings, to "them" were walking pieces of meat for the slaughter. I'm very sure that the majority of the public are scared into simply "giving" away they're possessions, however I will not go down without a fight. Since in the end theyre going to kill you anyways after robbing you.

Robin Tudge
Ryan blames the government, because apparently it's the government's fault that he's a disgusting little scumbag who has chosen to live his life this way. Nothing, nothing forced his behaviour, there has been and is worse poverty in this country and worldwide for centuries and yet societies move forward precisely because its members do not descend into this kind of self-destructive, self-absorbed idiocy. The underpinning logic of this boy's existence is the rest of society is to be preyed upon when it suits and then blamed for it when it suits.

stanley
i grew up in the 80's on a council estate. my friends and i played football, went on bike rides, did whatever, but never got into trouble with the police or local residents. the country has gone to pot and it's down to this "softly softly" government bowing down to the "we're so hard done to" teenagers of today. be under no illusion, these are hardened criminals, and at the age of 17, have probably been in the lifestyle for years without being PROPERLY punished for his crimes. A TAG!!! He's obviously learnt his lesson!Sent them all to Iraq, let them do their gun toting for a good cause.

Mark Hammersley
What is the "Gun finger?" that just looks like the bird to me.. also nice to see the police have nothing better to do than bust a lad for possession of a class c drug, when they could spend there time, manpower, and tax payers money getting guns out of the hands of children and off our streets

David Jones
What rubbish maybe the kid should get off his bum, work hard at school and got a job.

Chris
A somewhat humourous image. Mainly for the fact half these kids were about 8 stone in weight. As the saying goes; Guns make the weaker strong. To add onto the whole gun discussion and Hip-Hop being a cause of this. As a Hip-Hop fan i'm going to reluctantly agree. Rap music on television and the radio is what's pressurising kids into handling knifes and guns; But at the same time that's just the surface. If you looked a little deeper you'd come to the conclusion that it's on the parents-and the Jewish ran corporations and busisnesses who push "gangsta rap" into the media. There's plent of Hip-Hop artists out there who are conscious and have an uplifting and down to earth messages. The problem is they're forced to stay underground because the big companies and the media don't want to put them into the spotlight... They want to put criminal "gangsta rappers" into the spotlight. So all in all, blame the media and the parents. They're the route of the problems.

sarah
I strongly believe that these so called “kids” should stop blaming society, and start blaming their parents. The parents are to blame in each and every case, there is no way by little brother would go about there to intentionally commit a crime, and that’s because he respects his family name. These kids need to learn how to respect themselves and their families. Society should be held ransom and no-one should feel guilt, accept the parents. The need to see what struggle really means, there are millions of children dying from diseases that mankind can not cute and all they’re worried about is their image. I think if a handful of these so called “gangsters” were taken to the front line they’ll sooner change their mind about carrying a gun.

Big un
I was utterly disgusted when i saw the news story of the scum with meat cleavers and knives being branished as though it was so funny. I am sorry, but if i was one of the personel who was covering the story, i would of not hesitated to contact the police to get these.... (sorry no better word) scum off the streets. When we were this age and i am not an old person (i am 42), we would of been given the biggest belting of our live off our parents if they knew that we were carrying weapons like this.

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